On Friday, you were emailed a recording of "Fantasia on Greensleeves" made during class. Please provide constructive criticism on this performance so that the ensemble can improve before the concert. Click on the little pencil at the bottom of this post to add your comments. When you are ready to post, click on NAME/URL under
CHOOSE AN IDENTITY.
A professional recording of this piece (although in a different key) can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHAGcKFO-VQ.
Due Monday, December 6.
Interesting fact: Apart from the main folk-tune "Greensleeves", the center section (at 4) uses another folk tune entitled "
Lovely Joan".
50 comments:
The 1st violins should play softer at #1, because the 2nd violins have the melody. We're so loud that we almost don't even change the dynamics between the pianissimo at #1 and the mezzo forte at #3. The 1st violin section should listen to the beginning of the professional recording in which the 1st violins play so softly. At #4, the whole orchestra has to be sharper and crisper on the first note with the forte right before the pianissimo; we need to focus on intonation at this point. The violins need to focus on dynamics during this whole section; we should play pianissimo. We should also focus on intonation with the high notes during #6. We should play softer during #8 since the cellos have the melody. Whenever a section plays the melody, they should focus on the accidentals. The ending could use a little more work.
The 2nd violins really need to work on being together at #1. Everyone is p laying at different times so that is something we should work on. Another think 2nd violin needs to work on are the tremolos at the bottom of the first page. Also i think that i need to work on my solo due to the fact that i did not play.
oh wait, that was the day i wasn't here on Friday...ok well i will still work on it.
At #1 the 2nd violins need to focus on intonation. Many people played E flat instead of E natural in some measures and F# instead of F natural. The 2nd violins weren't together and would play triplets instead of dotted eighth notes-sixteenth notes-eighth notes. At #2 the second violins improved a lot, and the melody was clearer. #3 sounds a bit muggy and I think we could all work on our tremolos. The first note at #4 should be sharp, clear, and fortissimo quickly fading into pianissimo but not everyone hit the note. The pizzicatto from the 2nd violins was in tempo and together. All of us could improve the measure right before #6, as many people couldn't switch quickly enough from pizzicato to arco. The intonation at #6 was very good for the 2nd violins, violas, and cellos, but they were a bit overpowering and it was hard to hear the melody from the 1st violins. The intonation of the 1st violins needs a little work, especially the higher notes. The 1st violins played forte at #8 and it was difficult to hear the melody from the violas. At #10 the intonation and the dynamics were very good - the 1st violin melody was easily distinguished and the other instruments played softly. Overall, we have to work on intonation and dynamics, especially at #1, #4, #6, and #8
The 1st violins definitely need to pay attention to the dynamics at one, because we're drowning out the 2nd violins, who need to be heard as they are playing the main theme. There are a couple places where notes are out of tune, especially during the divisi for the 1st violins. Also, the tremolo sounds a bit out of tune at 4, and the dynamics need to be very sharp, fading very quickly from forte to pianissimo. The violins overall need to work on the pizzicato section in order to not speed up. In the section with the higher notes for the 1st violins leading up to the violinist solo, the 1st violins really need to hit the high notes, as they sound either very sharp or very flat. When the 1st violins repeat the melody at the end of the piece, it seems that some of the notes start a bit earlier, so we all need to work on staying together. The ending feels a bit weak, which is something the whole orchestra can work on.
Overall, I think the entire orchestra needs to work on intonation as well as staying together. One way to do this is to look up at the conductor and pay attention to the other sections. Also, I think it is extremely important that at the beginning of the piece the cello, viola, and bass make sure to pluck together. It is very obvious when one instrument is off beat. I also think that the violas need to play more confidently at the top of the second page, we need to make sure that we sound clean and confident. ONE MORE THING- at #8 the violas and cello have the melody, the rest of the orchestra NEEDS to play softer.
After the plucking the violins come in late playing arco. Also some of the notes sound harsh so make sure we are using 4th fingers and have all the sharps and flats correct. The dynamics also are off. You couldn't always here the melody because other sections were playing to loudly. Also i thought that the start of the tremelos was not very good sounding. It didn't sound together or like the right dynamic. Toward the end of the tremelos it sounded more in sync.
First, when the first violins have their plucking solo, they're rushing a little bit. The basses actually werent in the room until the end, but judging by former preformances we tend to play too loud with a heavy, not fluent tone, and we do so while also rushing and not playing together. As a whole, it sounded okay but simple things like playing in uniform and volume change would really help.
One of the first things I noticed listening to the piece was how off beat the violas, cello, and bass were plucking at the beginning. The first and second violins were rushing a bit in their plucking at rehearsal 5. Two measures after rehearsal 8, the second violins need to play much softer, since our music says pianissimo, but we're overpowering other sections.
The transition to four could be a little smoother, people are not hitting the szp on the first beat together. Also at 6 the lower instruments and the violins don't sound together. It's like both sections are playing on two different beats, and those beats aren't matching up. Also, it's hard to hear the really pretty harmony in the first violin section when there is the div into thirds. Also first violins should be aware that higher sounds carry farther than lower ones so even if they are attempting to play a high note soft, it can still over power a lower section.
The first and second violins need to work on intonation at #1. The notes are clashing. They also need to work on playing together. The second violins need to be louder when they have the melody, and the first violins should be softer so the second violins can be heard. Second violins also could work on intonation. At some parts when the violins aren't listening to each other it sounds like everyone is practicing different variations of the same piece all at the same time, they should listen to each other playing so that the orchestra has a stronger sound. Violins need to work on tremolos. violas and celli could also work on intonation. The plucking during the solos sounds like fat tripping mice, it should be lighter. The transition after the solo should also be more fluent. Katie sounds great on the harp. In all the orchestra needs to work on INTONATION & Richard Dean says listening. We have ears for a reason. d^_^b
At the beginning the 1st violins need to be quieter because the 2nd's have the melody. Throughout the piece, the various dynamic levels aren't really noticeable. We need to pay attention to them-we even highlighted them in our music. Also, the intonation/finger placement was off. Some people played flats, others naturals, so it all blended into 1 mushy note. The 2nd violins' trills also need to be more crisp and defined. Then at the top of the 2nd page, we all need to work on the plucking part and need to look up at the conductor so we can all be together.
The violins have to work on 3rd position intonation, because in the recording, there are two tones for the same note in some parts of the 1st violin section. Also the First/second violins tend to speed up at the pizz, so we have to keep listening to Matt's solo to match his tempo.
The entire orchestra should work on being together during parts with pizzicato, because sometimes it sounds off. But as a whole, the piece sounds very together. The violas should work on differentiating the dynamics throughout the piece, because they all sound kind of similar. The orchestra did pretty well, but we could still work on dynamics.
Firstly, the whole orchestra can improve on dynamics. Throughout the song, I didn't hear any dramatic change in volume. The second violins need to work on intonation. The pitch was off, and it sounded a bit sloppy. (I will definitley practice that.) Also, we need to work on our timing. We need to play together to form a crisper, cleaner sound. For example, when the second violins played the tremolos, it does not blend well. We played well, but we will sound even better after we practice.
I thought that the 2nd violins were a bit shaky in some spots- and watch the conductor more- because not everyone is together. The first violins sound a bit pitchy in the middle as well- which sounded really annoying- must be fixed (use 4th finger as well). Over all everyone needs to practice there part more. But aside from the negative- the solo's sounded really good- nice job matt and katie!
I felt that over all the piece sounded good. As the basses were not playing in this recording, I have no specific critique on this recording in particular but form past knowledge I feel that we could count our rests better so we coma in on time. Also, I feel that we should be looking to the conductor more to keep in a constant tempo. The violins should work on the plucking parts and the transfer from bowing to plucking. I feel that every section needs to put a bit more time in to make the piece perfect.
The 1st violins do need to play softer at #1 as the seconds violins have the melody, but it doesn't help that we are naturally amplified because we are the closest section to the mic. The rhythm of the non-melodic sections also has to be improved, as many are stumbling over the notes that are withing the ties / slurs. The same thing should be done when the viola's and celli have the melody. My solo could use some fine tuning, but I was surprised that the tone sounded pretty good (even with my school violin). I should 7 take more time at the rallantando before as the flute does in the professional recording. Intonation needs work, especially since were so close to the concert. Also, even though this is a recording, I know many people have to pay attention to bowings so we can look like a tight unit who knows what we are doing even if some of the notes may not be great. All violin, PLEASE stop using your open e strings. Its timbre sounds like a dagger and would sound much better if we all used 4th finer.
The 2nd violins definitely need to work on intonation starting from the eighth measure; there is a B flat and E natural which some people seem to be unaware of. Not knowing about the B flat sets a bad precedent for the rest of the song. Some of the rhythms need to be paid attention to also (for example the dotted eight note followed by a sixteenth note and eighth notw are often played as three eighth notes). At rehersal 5, when all the pizzicato began, I heard that we were rushing. I think if everyone knows what the tempo is and where the note falls, we won't rush. Overall, everyone needs to look at the music and know the key signature/time signature; then we'll be in good shape.
At the beginning, when the violins come in, they are not all together and there were a lot of intonation problems. also when the violins are plucking, they tend to rush and it is not very clear. after that when everyone comes in not everyone comes in at the same time and that needs to be worked on. when the violas have the melody, they were a little hard to hear and they were being over powered by everyone else. there were also no noticeable dynamic changes. overall, intonation, dynamics and timing need to be worked on.
The pizzicatos has to be played together. At 1, first violins should definitely play softer so the melody of the second violins can come out. The firsts should be accompanying the seconds. The seconds also needs to be in better intonation. When the firsts takeover the melody, the seconds should do the same and become softer and accomany the firsts. I can not hear the violas and celli until there melody, so they should be more confident and play louder (even though they should not be louder than the melody). The fortepiano tremolo should be so soft that it should not be heard. The pizzicatos should be softer because there is a solo. The sixteenth note that comes after the dotted eighth should be delayed. The soloist must have perfect intonation. The violin soloist could also hold out the E longer during his third solo because there is a fermata. He should also take time on the straight eighth notes because he is the only one playing. In general, the inntonation needs much more work and the dynamics has to be much noticeable.
First, throughout the entire piece, the dynamics need to change more, especially when another section has the melody. At the beginning, 1, the violins had a few intonation problems, especially on the higher notes. At 4, the violins on the tremolo could be more together, and start at the same time. Also, the cellos and violas should listen more to hear each other so they play a the same time. At 5, the violins plucking seem to speed up a little. At 6, the cellos and viola are little loud and overpowering. At 8, when the violas have the melody, the violins are a little loud, so it is hard to hear the melody. Overall, we played well, but still could use some improvement on our dynamics and intonation.
Plucking. 1st Violins, we have those single quarter note plucks while Matt is soloing (before 1 and during 7). We should be more together on those because when we aren't, it's really noticeable and it sounds sloppy and gross. Also, at 5, First and Second Violins, I feel like some of us are rushing it. When we reach the arco at 6, we're not prepared to switch to bowing and it's noticeable. Whenever we have plucking, Matt's part is there if you need guidance.
Dynamics. Although we highlighted the dynamics on the music, I heard LITTLE change in dynamics (if none at all). 1st Violins, the majority of our playing is in pianissimo. We're only mezzo-forte at 3 and 10. Lower the volume... there's a lot of us compared to the other sections. I'm not sure about how loudly the rest of the orchestra should be playing, but I'm pretty sure that we all need to work on dynamics.
For the most of us, we don't sound confident when playing, especially in the beginning. I can clearly hear the really strong players belting it out, but the rest of us sound scratchy and not with the rest of the orchestra.
I think that the 2nd violins need to be together at #1. Also, I think that the 2nd violins need to work on their pitch and together with not just other 2nd violists, but the rest of the orchestra as well. Both the 1st and 2nd violins need to watch the dynamics throughout the whole song. If we all did that, then the whole piece would sound much better.
I think the number one priority should be to work on intonation as an orchestra. We are relatively good at playing together throughout the piece, but certain melodies could sound better if everyone played in tune. I think one way to improve intonation is to know what key signature you are playing in because it changes a couple of times throughout the piece. Also when the violas have the solo half way through the second page it is very hard to hear them because all other sections (especially the violins) are playing there part as if it is the melody. There are less than 10 violas and over 40 violins if the violins played softer it would be easier to hear the violas and if the violas play louder and with more confidence than everything will balance out.
The first violins need to do the dynamics in the beginning of the piece because I feel we are drowning out the seconds. The second violins need to work on intonation and pay attention to sharps. Violins overall need to work on intonation when hitting high notes as some of the longer high notes sound out of tune and gross. My overall impression was that we did a good job but we really need to work on dynamics. I heard no major changes in the dynamics even thought there are clearly changes in the dynamic written in the music.
The first violins have to be softer at as the second violins have the melody. Also there are some intonation problems, especially on the higher notes. The plucking really needs to be together duriing Matt's solo too. The second violins seemed to have some intonation problems as well. They should also work on playing more together, especially at the beginning. Overall, I think we should have more dynamic contrast and work on playing together by watching.
*at #1
The violas need to be louder throughout the piece. I can barely hear them when we have our fortes. We must also be sharper and less sloppy, especially when we have the melody towardds the end of the piece. Though the cellos were close knit through the piece,and the second violins had good volume, but they could work on intonation. All in all, there is some room for improvement, especially on my part.
The 2nd violins should listen to each other and be more sync. Also, open strings should not be played. If the song had more legato, then it would flow much nicer in transition. At 4 with the tremolo, we need to have a better entrance (F#). When doing the pizz. area, everybody should watch and listen to the soloist and the conductor. Listen to who has the melody in the orchestra so the contrast in sound would be better. Pitch and intonation of our notes and sounds, need more practice. With our dynamics, we should emphasize the difference in forte and piano so it can have a huge effect on our piece.
I agree with my cohorts in the first violin section. Our priority moving forward should be to focus on dynamics and intonation at #1 and throughout the piece as a whole. As well as maintaining the same tempo as the rest of your section.
As a whole the orchestra needs to work on staying together more, especially in the pizzicato sections. Also, we could probably work more on our dynamic markings, I don't think there was enough variety between our change in dynamics throughout the piece.
The first violins were very loud in the beginning during the second violin melody. In big chunks of the piece it is hard to hear the dynamics in the second violin section. I cant identify the forte in the beginning and the pianissimo during the viola melody is not distinguishable at all. Also, the anacrusis after the pizzacato was really messy. Part of the reason was probably because people were playing at different speeds at the pizz and so ended in different times. The second violin section should focus more on being together in the pizzacato section. Finally we should also focus on the accidentals because some of the important notes sounded really off. But altogether we sounded like a work in progress. It is not finished yet. We still need to work on it a little more.
It was pretty good overall. We could use some work on the notes and dynamics. But overal it was pretty chill.
In the beginning the first violins were far to loud making it harder to hear the second violins who I think have the melody. Also we need to work on our dynamics because we are supposed to know the difference between forte and metzo forte and especially piano. During number 5 the second violins need to try to stay together better, because some of us are speeding or falling behind. Overall I think that we still need to practice in order to improve to be together and in tune.
The basses are pretty much the best section, but we do need to work on rehearsal number 6. We need to hld out the half note/eigth note combo so that we give it the correct value. We also need to make sure that we are also not overpowering the melody, considering we never have it, in any song. Considering most of the song is pianisimo, we need to make sure that we are quiet, except for 7 and 8 measures after rehearsal number 6 where we have a crescendo. That should be emphasized.
I think overall the piece is good but, there are a few places we could improve. As an orchestra we are very loud and you cant really hear the dynamic change... Also at #1 the 2nd violins have the melody but i can mostly hear the 1st violins. Also the 2nd violins timing was a little off
The song overall as an orchestra was very loud and you could barely hear the dynamic change. At #1 the 1st violins don't have the melody but you still can only hear the first when you should be hearing the second.
going into the 4:4 part, the first vibrato notes are out of tune...it takes a couple of seconds for them to hone in on the correct pitch. The following part after the pizz, where the ensemble plays, is very weak. It could feel full bodied and strong, but sounds instead hollow. I can't here the bass part reliably anywhere throughout. The trebly parts sound scratchy. The balance for the soloists is great--they really come through. The ending is lame. We should really be pianissimo there, but are again caught in the mezzo-ipod trap.
The biggest problem for the entire group is dynamics. This is specifically evident in the first violins because we always play loudly even when we don't have the melody. We should play softer at #1 and #4 because they are pianissimos, and therefore should be very quiet. We also need to work on the sections where we divide at #1 and #9 because the counting is a little off so the chords don't sound as good as they could. Another part for the entire orchestra to work on is the pizzicato at #5 because the counting is off and each section is not together so the harmony does not work well.
The tremoloes, by the violins, were bad- also, DYNAMICS- many times, you can't even hear the melody because so many other people who are not as important are playing to loudly. Also, everyone has to work on being more together, this was really bad, 'specially with the seconds at 1. Also- tuning needs some fine-tuning (no pun intended). Intonation needs some work.
i think that overall we have to make sure that whoever is playing the melody can be easily heard, and everyone else follows the dynamics so that they are quiet when they need to be. The most important part in which we need to apply this is around #4 when the cellos and violas have their melody and the violins have the vibrato, here i think we need to have the violins play a little softer, and the cellos and violas play a bit louder. And one last part that i think needs work is at #5 when the violins have their pizzicato, I think they need to be a little more in sync with each other and make sure that the solo comes out over them. And other than that, I think we just need to follow the tempo especially in the beginning for the basses, and make sure that we don't go too fast.
I think that overall the piece needs a lot of work. I think that we need to work a lot on intonation. There were a lot of out-of-tune notes throughout the piece. In addition I think that, as many have said, we need to work on dynamics. I could barely hear any change at all. I think that the violas need to be louder at 8 and 9 when we have the melody. I also think that everyone else, who don't have the melody, should play softer so that the melody is not being drowned out. As well, the whole piece didn't sound very together to me. I think we need to work on counting and listening to each other so that we stay in sync. I think that most of these problems can be solved by people practicing at home, making sure they are in tune and following the dynamics.
The orchestra needs to listen to each other, and that includes stand partners, section leaders, other sections, etc. We're a team, but at the moment, we really don't sound like one; everyone's caught up in their own music and only occasionally looks around to ensure they don't pluck when no one else does on the pizz. in the first couple of measures and at #7. That's not enough. We need to really follow our dynamics especially at the places marked piano and pianissimo. And it might just be the recording, but the violins sound really harsh, like shrieking hags or something. Not very pleasant, but it can be remedied with vibrato and good intonation. We should work on intonation in sectionals.
Right Now:
We deffinetly need to work on dynamics. Even though we highlighted the dynamics I didn't hear them. The 2nd violins are too loud when the cellos play their solo. All the notes were clashing together. It sounded like we were out of tone and that we didn't know how to play the notes. I agree with Oscar, "that the violas should be louder," especially when they have the solo.
Improve:
-We have to work on the dynamics and listen to each other.
-We have to look up at the conducter from time to time. The conducter is in charge of the melody.
-We have to go over the notes because some people play the wrong notes or their instrument needs to be toned, but they doon't know. In Middle School we use to tune ourselves and then each of us would play their 4 strings and the conducter would correct the person if there are not tuned. I know that we should know how to tune our instruments, but some people can't hear if there instrument is tuned or not.
The main problem this piece has right now is cohesion; in critical points, there seems to be some separation between various sections and within several sections. Notably, this seems to happen whenever the main melody comes in, although the last time starts off on a better footing than the others. But overall it really just becomes too glaringly obvious when people aren't playing with everyone else, and this should be rectified.
Honestly, the problems with dynamics seem largely confined to the first half, and the orchestra as a whole gets a bit better in the second half of the song about it.
Overall, I think the first violin section passed regarding intonation, but needed to work on dynamics to help pull out the melody. Also, there were many times when the first violin section was too loud and was overpowering the other sections, so the first violins need to practice playing softer. I think the second violin section's major concern would have to be pitch, specifically in the beginning of the piece. One thing I admired about the performance however was that at some sections of the song, the different sections of the orchestra were pretty well balanced. However, I think in order to achieve even more of a balance, the violas and/or cellos could play louder and/or the violins could play softer so all of the sections can be equally heard.
As for how the song could be improved, the first problem is the tuning. The higher the notes get, and the more accidentals there are, the more errors there are in the playing. I think it is more of a problem for the 2nd violins, but the 1st violins could also work on their tuning. The entrances and exits could also be sharper and the dynamics could be a lot more dramatic. The pp could be much softer and the f much more dramatic; it would help if the sections were careful to listen to one another and pay attention to whom they should be hearing.
There is a lot of criticism and not a lot of solutions for instance.
Everyone says that the violins aren't together or are too loud. An easy solution is to only have the first couple stands play in those one or two specific areas. Just the fact that there are less of them should help them play softer and also they are all sitting closer because there are less of them so they should play more together. Also generally the better players sit up front. Of course in the rest/majority of the piece where the music is easier or not as critical that it be so precise the rest of the section will play as well.
I actually thought it was pretty good but hearing people just say.. too fix this we should "work on that" is not really creative. Just an opinion, but I am serious about the violin thing sometimes there are better ways to fix things than practice.
-Bobby J
Intonation is a major thing that is missing. Especially in the II violins and the bases during their pickups. The violins regularly miss the respective sharps and flats, especially the C# in the pizzacato part and the e flats throughout the song.
To make matters worse, although everyone else has said the same thing. the tempo is constantly disregarded. Again during the pizzacato part, the second violins, who are supposed to be the crutch for the other sections, accelerate greatly and force all other sections to speed up.
The final, and perhaps most detrimental factor in the quality of the piece. is our total disregard for dynamics. The II violins are especially guilt of this, as in many parts of the piece where their role is to provide a quiet rythym or counter-melody, they play loudly, blocking out other instruments that have the melody. For example, in part 6 (or 7) when the violas have the melody, they are challenged by the second violins to be heard, despite the II violin part being in pianicimo.
Intonation, specifically the c# and b+e flats, tempo, specifically with the second violins during the pizzacato part at 5, and all the dynamics must be recognized by the majority of the orchestra if the piece is to sound good, and pay the song a proper tribute.
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